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  • Running on Fumes

    by Vera H-C Chan

    Nov 17, 2008

    • 30 Votes

    America's love for the automobile has not, in recent years, extended to its native automakers. Lured by sexy fuel economy and come-hither reliability, drivers have flocked to Japanese manufacturers like Honda and Toyota, which in turn have set up permanent roots in the U.S. of A.

    Now Detroit's Big Three are running on fumes, especially General Motors, and they want taxpayer help. As the Senate Banking Committee holds hearings this week on the different ways to handle yet another possible financial meltdown (especially the so-called "multiplier" effect, noted below), folks are finding themselves divided over the notion of pulling corporate giants out of an economic ditch.

    One thing there's no shortage of—opinions. After all, as the Wall Street Journal spells out harshly, the manufacturers got into "the crisis weakened by mistakes of their own doing. The Detroit Three depended for more than a decade on profits from gas-guzzling sport-utility vehicles and pumped up sales with cheap credit..." However, the AP reports that the "house of cards" involves not only GM, Chrysler, and Ford, but also many auto suppliers and parts companies.

    So in the Buzz, who advocates the bumpy road to financial ruin or the taxpayer repossession?

    For the Bailout:
      • Democratic members of Congress (including Barack Obama) and at least two Republicans, who want to impose conditions in order for the Big Three borrow from the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
      • In a worse-case scenario, Center for Automotive Research predicts a 2.5 million job loss if 1.5 of the Big Three's "manufacturing capacity" went kaput.
      • United Auto Workers president Ron Gettelfinger says the fault lies not in the auto makers' problems, but in the economic stars ... so now's not the time to ask for UAW contract concessions.

    Against the Bailout
      • Bush administration and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson would rather that Congress take from the $25 billion Energy Department loans intended for "fuel-efficient technology."
      • Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama—more importantly known as the Senate Banking Committee's ranking member and the key to the money strings—called the fossil fuel-burning companies a collective "dinosaur."
      • The former president of Ford Europe advocates the government be "the banker of last resort" and an industry "shake-out."

    It Depends:
      • The "Deal Professor" at the New York Times asks a lot of questions about who the bailout really benefits (the private equity firms that own the automakers?), how many people GM actually employs, and executive perks.
      • Neil Young's solution, which can be seen on NPR, details the involvement of something called Transition Rollers.

    No takers for this idea... yet: Get Chevron or Exxon to delve into their record profits and create a Big Buddy program for the automakers.

    • 30 Votes
Comments
(48)

I work for a dealeship. I need a job, and if the Big Three goes down. Look at the unemployent benefits of more millions of workers. the time is now to remember back in May, June, July. The economy wasnot bad unti $147.oo a barrell for oil.
People got smart, couldn't afford to go anywhere. Gas to expensive. No vacations this year kids. Be realistic and don't blame the auto industry. Blame the one's that had there hands in the billions made off of oil revenues.
THINK AMERICA!!!!!!! We brought it on to ourselves for letting the greed of this country and polititions control their own greed. let some of them suffer like the rest of us.

posted Nov 17, 2008 |
+3
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God, pray for us. Lets get through these tough times as a country. I say the bail out should go towards the electric car. We need to re-tool and make a product that will continue to sell. Let's take a leadership role in the auto world..

posted Nov 17, 2008 |
+4
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my car doesn't get a full tank now a days...

posted Nov 17, 2008 |
-3
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To bad we cant bring Lee Iacoca back. When the goverment bailed out Chrysler years ago Lee turned it all around and paid it back. I think it would be ok to make a low intrest loan to the auto makers with the provision they can not go out of bussiness or go bankrupted. Also a clause needs to be in place that they keep the american auto builder employees there (no layoffs). Ofcourse the employees as well as managment will need to make concessions to acomplish all this. People that are building the cars get paid more that the guys who have to repair them and have benifits that mechanics can only dream of reciving. The guys at the top that get huge bonuses for what the workers acomplished needs to go away and pay them an honest salary (that means no more multi-million dollar homes). Finally I do agree we need more electric/hybrid cars/trucks developed for a fair cost not an inflated one.

posted Nov 17, 2008 |
0
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I, too, have been thinking of Lee Iacoca. Where is that type of businessman today? Don't give money to auto-makers; loan it to them. Don't let the government own banks; loan the banks money and make them pay it back. Make the CEO's who ran off with money pay it back. Don't bail out just the homeowners who bought something they could not afford. Take the money for home loans in the bailout, divide into it the number of homeowners in America, and give everyone a share of it. My husband and I would more than love to give back to the economy! And we definitely could with some help ourselves. I don't know but with everyone getting a little help knowing that they will be giving back sounds better than everyone just taking and taking, thinking someone owes it to them. No accountability means they will be back for more!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+8
Reply

lend them the money with following minimum provistions;
1. exec salary cap of 200k yr, no bonuses whatsoever until loan paid back in full
2. uaw, wake up and lose the waist, no business can afford your contract, nix the jobs bank now, when one department in a plant needs to work overtime, stop making all others sit and play cards to get their overtime. if the uaw refuses to renegotiate or step aside, then dont bother with the loan, their all dead

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+8
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The auto industry has a short memory. this is a repeat of the 1980s when an influx of cheap cars..ie: the volkswagon bug and the little Honda nearly caused a failure...Why does Detroit keep insisting on making BIG expensive cars. How often do they have to be bailed out!
GGGrandma

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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I like the idea of bringing back Lee Iacoca too. However, I would like to remind everyone that when he left chrysler he took with him a $670M incentive package. The big shots get paid too much. The average CEO, as of 2005, made 520 times that of the average worker. Do you think that money may have something to do with the problem.

I really do believe we need to bail out the auto industry because if we let them go into backruptcy you can throw out all the retirement packages the workers have been promised for there entire careers. You can bet the big wigs will still get all the money they've been promised.

We should help the working man. Get rid of the execs and keep the working man working!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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We all have to cut back and take concessions, so why can't the auto workers? I am not against helping the auto industry, but I think that every company the receives a bail out should have restrictions placed on where the money goes. No more bonuses,no raised, no more elaborate vacations. Some of us are lucky if we get a paid weeks vacation or a couple of sick days. Everyone needs to tighten their belts including the CEO'S and the employees of these bailed out companies.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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i say that the bailout funds should be used in the " trickle up" idea. whereas the money is given to "we the people" for us to pay our bills and auto loans and etc etc and as this money gets spent by us going to those companies that we "borrowed" it from. in this manner these companies that wrote themselves million and billion dollar bonus checks would actually end up getting the bailout that they need.instead of bailing out the crooks ... lets bailout the victims.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
0
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THIS IS THE 100 POUND GORILLA IN THE ROOM. WE LOSE EITHER WAY. WE MUST BAIL OUT THE CAR COMAPNIES AND PUT TARIFFS ON IMPORTS. WE MUST BECOME NATIONALISTIC LIKE THE OTHER COUNRTRIES ARE. IN THE MEANTIME WE MUST PUT MONEY INTO ALTHERNATIVE FUEL SOURCES--THIS WILL SOLVE THE FUEL PROBLEM AS WELL AS THE ARAB PROBLEM.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
0
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I NEED A NEW TRUCK SO I WANT TO KNOW WHEN TO BUY A NEW ONE WHO IS DESPERATE TO SELL ONE AT A REAL PRICE AND WITH A GOOD INTEREST RATE IF I HAVE TO HAVE ONE

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
-1
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slm

BUY AMERICAN! Stop buying that foriegn crap. Our auto companies pay huge tariffs to sell in those countries, while they don't pay any here and run our companies out of business. It started with electronics. They sold equipment below cost to run our American manufactures out of business. It all has worked out well for them. Working families will really get trickled down on if these companies are allowed to fail. BUY AMERICAN.

AND don't tell me American products aren't as good; that's a load of crrrraaaap. Brainwashed sheep!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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WILL CARS OR TRUCKS EVER BE 5000 AGAIN NEW EEEWWW MAYBE LESS IVE HEAR STORIES WHEN HOUSES WERE 40K MAYBE CARS WILL MAKE IT TO THE LOW SINGLE DIGITS ALL THESE CEO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEIR BONUS AWAY FOR THE RAINY DAYS TO COME SINCE THEY ARENT HELPING THEIR OWN BUDDYS WHO GAVE THEM THOS BONUS ALL THESE YEARS

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
-1
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You have to be honest about the situation and the fact that under the automakers' cost of labor and benefits, they can never come back on any amount of bailout money. Adjustments would have to be made and forced on the executives as well as the Union, regardless of what they say in public. You have to model the companies on making money on making sedans which are considerably more fuel efficient that SUV's and trucks, which is mainly what you see advertised on TV and in print. Without a restruture, which most likely will have to be done under bankruptcy protection, GM, Ford and Chrysler cannot make money. Many companies have maintained their customers under Chapter 11 reorganization. At least, if I was going to buy a Chevy or other American auto, at least I would know the manufacturer would most likely be building a decent car without the concern the wheels were going to fall off and parts may not be available.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
0
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I don't like having to bail companies out that have been mismanaged and refused to realize that they have to change with the times, which means putting cars on the market that are more fuel efficent and put money into researching cars that can work on alternative fuel sources. But, unfortunately we have to bail these auto companies out because if we don't it will be the blue collar workers that will be hurt.They will be the ones that will be laid off and unable to support their families. We are bailing out all the white collar companies and they white collar workers, lets do something to help out middle class workers.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+2
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I too agree that Americans should be loyal to their country and buy American. Everyone that is losing their jobs should take a hard look at the car they are driving.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+3
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The greedy,polititions,wall street big wigs and ceos have caused the economic down fall of this country. To take it out on the workers and have them lose the pensions that they put 45 yrs toiling for is wrong. take all bonuses and benifits of those in congress away.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+5
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NEXT---WHO'S NEXT IN LINE FOR MORE MONEY. WHERE DOES IT END!!!!!!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+3
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i believe what garyelk224 says. its the COEs that make too much money not the working class.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+3
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I DONT THINK WE SHOULD BAIL THEM OUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO GET THRU 2009(GM HAS ABOUT 16 BILLION AND FORD AND CHRYSLER HAVE ENOUGH ALSO). i don't want to see another A I g incident where the y bailed out and all the big wig got caught partying in arizona at a exspensive hotel is that what the big wigs at the auto will do with the money.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+2
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If we bailout THE BIG 3 then all union contract should be void. Set new resonable contrtact in place.We the people can demand it because it is our money.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+3
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The plants built in China, Mexico, and other countries were built with money made off the backs of North American autoworkers, while companies pled poverty to their workers and the American press. When you're that big, you can afford the best accountants for fudging figures to say what you want them to say. And when there's free money floating around, who's 1st in line? Big business, CEO's, and lawyers (politicians).
I agree in buying American, it's the best chance we have for survival and making a statement against taking advantage of foreign slave labor conditions, lack of foreign environmental laws. Since Chinese and Mexican investments are so profitable, ask China and Mexico for a bailout. Remember to say "please";).

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+6
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No Bailout, when I had rough times and was forced to close up after 10 years it was because I could not get a loan to care me through rough times . I had to let go 10 people that depended upon me to take care . It is a very bad thing to give to one and not the other and we should never as a country go down that path. Let those auto execs. forgive their salary and benefits . That will never happen. Reward failure? This is so crazy I can't believe they are tying to get away with it. What ba... they have!!!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+3
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This is just another Democratic party b.s. Nancy Pelosi at work again! It is quite apparent Obama bin laden owes Detroit big time for winning the election. Now we have to pay for it?? I don 't see government coming to the aid of everyday people to bail them out when their budgets fail! Come on, there is accountability people. You run your company like crap and expect everyone to bail you out? NO! Get rid of all those high paid pencil pushers I laughingly refer to as CEO's. None of them are worth what they are paid!!! And make cars that are fuel efficient so the American public doesn't have to buy foreign cars!!!!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
0
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This is not a "bail out" but a loan. Fine, go ahead & give them the loan but at the same time the CEO's have to take a cut in their enormous salaries & not more"perks & bonus" as they have gotten in the past. If it weren't for the assembly line workers these guys wouldn't have their million dollar homes, yachts etc. while we have to worry about where our next meal is comming from. Keep the jobs in the USA. Let's try that!! Maybe add conditions to the loan, no more outsourcing of US jobs in the future! How 'bout that!!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+4
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They want a bailout. Not on my dime. They want government help. Here's a suggestion. Starting immediately, no one, including CEO's makes over $15.00 an hour. Don't like it, quit. There is hundreds of thousands of us willing to take your place at the car plant. Better yet, with the reduced wages the car plant will bail itself out and become much leaner and more effective in the process. When I make enough to maintain my 15year old car, maybe I'll look at the bailout from a different perspective.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+2
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Give the 25 billion to the American people in tax incentives for the purchase of an American car. Thus making the big three profitable long enough to make the UAW's contract concessions have time to work. Reward the big three for using American people and technology to build a car that meets the demand of the American people. People need to work AND companies need to be profittable for our economy to work.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+4
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I have seen were some of the people think that auto workers have not sacrificied. The last contract, people now are coming in at half wages. How about the people that have worked all their lives for GM? Do you believe that they are at fault? They were promised a pension and health benefits when they hired in. GM over the years have eliminated a lot of their workers through automation. It isn't just the autos, it's all the part suppliers too. Sometimes I don't think people realize what is involved in producing an automobile in this country.

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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US automakers didn't ask for money from our government until a bailout of mortgage holders (forced to give out bad loans by our government) was approved, by our government. One automaker, who is now asking for money, had just previously been considering buying another automaker who was already in trouble. Now that their stock price is low, sales of their stock has been frozen (so anyone interested in buying their stock, which would cause a rise in stock value, can't). Give me a break, talk about manipulation! Fantastic comment, Rocko - well done!

posted Nov 18, 2008 |
+1
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